Phillies Gay Night marred by First Amendment?

"marred by First Amendment"? Can anything be "marred" by the First Amendment? Are you sure you mean that or are you justifiably upset at the intolerance and hatred of "Repent America"?

Don't get me wrong - I don't support hate speech - but I support it's right to be spoken and especially for the rights of those to stand up to it with equal intensity for truth and freedom.

Then again - your sense of humor can be going over my head - which is easy.

BTW - Your podcast is terrific. It is worthy of its own post. Start a new one with the contents of the bottom of this post and we'll promote it. Great stuff man.

Free speech means you get to hear stuff you don't want to. Tough deal.

Say for example that the road sides where the Sheehan protests were on private land (not sure if they are or not), and the land owner, be it the President or the guy with the shotgun told everyone there'd be "ZERO CONSTITUTIONAL protection" for protestors and to beat it.

Would you be howling with outrage? I probably would.

Many polling places on so called "public land" (fire stations / townhalls) had MoveOn.org tables set up in the parking lots. Should a GOP controlled townhall or GOP leaning firehall be able tell them they have no constitutional protection?

Of course not.

Freedom of speech gives assholes the freedom to make fools of themselves.

Get used to it.

I'm not a member of Repent America, but my understanding of their message is this: homosexuality is a sin, but Jesus Christ can heal you.

So to paraphrase: "What you're doing is wrong, but there is hope for you."

How exactly is that considered "hate"?

Counting upon your point of view.. replace "homosexuality" with "being [insert race]" and say "[being something] is a sin, but Jesus Christ can heal you."

Like many things - it counts upon your point of view and whose shoes you stand in.

I heard another report that the fans rose up, in the manner I described, and shouted down the group.

Free speech vs. Free speech.

Personally, I would be offended by any NON-baseball related speech inside the building. I don't want to see a Vote for Hillary or a Vote for Santorum banner.

Is their banner, hate filled speech? The words are not, but you know their CORE is. These folks have a pattern and a history of rabble rousing. But as Karl says, and I was trying to allude to, that if you were to replace any group's activities in their banner it could be deemed as hate.

But I ask you, and I failed to do so before, please read their web-site. (http://www.repentamerica.com) If you don't feel that they are filled with hatred. I'll apologize.

But the real point of the post was that while I believe Free Speech is essential to our society regardless of the opinion, there are places that aren't necessarily covered by that Constitutional protection. Citizens Bank Park is not a public thoroughfare. It is a place of business, governed by the rules of the operator, the Phillies.

The Phillies have a documented history of removing inappropriate material and curbing offensive speech from the stands. That history makes this position a little hypocritical and caused more of a problem and attention than there should have been. A nice event for certain members of the community has been sullied by a fringe element. If you think Repent America are mainstream you are incorrect.

I'm all for debate. I'm all for free speech. But there is a time and place. This wasn't the place.

The First Amendment protects against government impinging on our rights to speak. The First Amendment in no way guarantees either a forum or an audience for our voices.

The Phillies organization is a private business. Phillies games, while semi-public events, are organized and executed by a private company. Attendees agree to the rules and limits of the Phillies organization when they purchase tickets and attend games.

Perhaps the team was looking to avoid a lawsuit from the protestors. That's vastly different than protecting the protestors' First Amendment rights. Hiding behind the guise of protecting free speech rights is pathetic and pure bull shit.

If the protestors want to stand on a public roadway outside the stadium, very much like Cindy Sheehan, to hold signs and shout their beliefs... more power to them. But the Bill of Rights does not guarantee ANYONE except the Phillies organization the right to express beliefs inside the stadium during a game.

The Phillies were counting on common ignorance on this one. They figured if they threw out words like "Free Speech" and "First Amendment" it would seem that the organization of course had no choice in the matter.

In reality, they could have legally removed the sign at any point in time. They chose not to. Maybe to avoid a lawsuit, maybe just to avoid continuing pressure from conservative groups. Whatever the reason, they shouldn't get a free pass to ride both sides of the issue.

It would be innapropriate to attend services at one Repent America's affiliated churches that reads "Jesus Christ is sin. Homosexuality can heal you!"

ROAD TRIP!!

Wow - that would be a scene Matt.

No argument on that point Mozzer. I don't know the legal rights of a corporation in this respect - I'm not a lawyer. And yes - it probably is playing a First Amendment card to protect itself.

I wonder what would happen if folks decided to show up for a game and unfurl and anti-Iraq war banner? It is a test that someone should do.

Karl,

In all fairness, I'm not a lawyer either. So perhaps I shouldn't say some of the things I do. I'm just speaking from some familiarity with communications law.

But the banner experiment would be a great thing, I'm very tempted...

is it really necessary to have a gay community night?
they don't have a straight community night. i'm straight. maybe that's offensive to me
why do they need an entire night devoted to them being gay, can't they just come to the park to watch a game?